Politics As Usual? You Gotta Be Kidding Me

Don’t look now, but the fuckers are coming out of the woodwork.

I make a point of not judging people. Or trying not to. I speak my mind, I say what I really feel, and I let it fall where it may. On this, I can’t pretend to be openminded.
In the Netherlands, a political party has decided to fight for their right to be pedophiles. They want child pornography legalized, they want sex with animals legalized, and they want the legal age for sex to be lowered to 12 years old.
Most 12-year-old girls don’t even own a fucking training bra, all right?
Every now and then I hear about someone who was 11 or 12 when they had their first sexual encounter with an adult, and they go on and on about how it was so great and how wonderful it was to be christened in such a way, and yada, yada, yada. Personally, I shake my head and wonder what the fuck they’re thinking. I know they’re all well and good about their past, but I wonder sometimes if they really didn’t miss out. I wonder, too, if their take on sex is as healthy as they want to believe it is.
There’s the awkwardness most of us go through as we fumble our ways to ecstasy, as we learn about the boys and girls who sit across from us in school, get teased and taunted into sexuality, and so forth. It’s not always pleasant, but it’s a way of life and it’s how we grow.
For an adult to take that away from a child is just wrong, in my books. It’s unfair.
The one thing these “Yeah, I lost it when I was 11” types tend to report is just how long it took to find someone that didn’t disappoint them after all that time. They don’t talk about the confusion that must have ensued when this adult who was interested in them for a fleeting time just up and disappeared. They don’t talk about the strangeness of trying to account for what their daily life really was as opposed to what that surreal encounter must have been like.
Most kids can’t handle the oddness of that mix. Once in a while, someone comes along who truly does grow from a Mrs. Robinson encounter, but it’s not often.
A political party trying to pass all this shit off as moralistic, trying to label the rest of society as behind the times strikes me as laughable, and even as dangerous.
It’s not as if kids aren’t being exposed to enough sex as it is. It’s not as if teen pregnancies haven’t been a problem. It’s not as if the suicide rate for teens isn’t high enough without throwing more complications into their mix.
These laws they’re proposing are not for the good of the kids. They’re for the party members’ benefits, so they can fuck whoever they want, so they can look at pictures of kids looking terrified and scared and exploited. It’s so they can enjoy fucking a goat or sheep.
Who’s speaking for the kids? How do kids even have the emotional makeup to admit that they’re uncomfortable having these photos taken? How do we judge where the line is, who’s mentally stable enough to decide he or she wants this for the right reasons?
We can’t judge it. The kids aren’t emotionally prepared for it. And these fuckers sure as shit aren’t speaking for the kids. If kids want to explore sex, let them play doctor like we did, or have a round of “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours” like I did in the forests behind our homes when I was 10. That’s how we learn.
I deplore child pornography. I loathe people who seduce children. I’m not much of an animal rights’ activist, but I sure as fuck bet a sheep would rather have a say in whether some guy’s cock enters its ass.
Yeah, I believe in free speech, but there are some people I sure wish would shut the fuck up.

14 thoughts on “Politics As Usual? You Gotta Be Kidding Me

  1. Haaaaaaa

    First, before I say what I want to say I want to qualify that I love the Dutch. Having been there many times, I love their eglatarian way.

    This, however, sucks. It is taking eglatarianism too far to protect this kind of expression. I only hope that the good Dutch people that I know put a stop to this.

    Unfortunately, for a country full of mostly really nice people, the Netherlands has been a reputed source of child porn for years. I hope this is just a publicity stunt and not something deeply rooted in many people.

  2. mhorts

    (All of this is regarding the laws in the US. I don’t know the laws in Canada, but I assume they are similar.)

    I will take the unpopular view here and ask what is so magical about the age of 18? Isn’t it just an arbitrary age? The US government says that at that age, you are mature enough to be independant, to vote, to join the military, and to have sex, but you are still not mature enough to drink? How old is old enough to have sex? 18? 25? 14? 17?

    Nature tells us when we are physically ready to have sex, but the stigmas and hang-ups we have about sex are imposed by society, not nature.

    As an aside, one thing that bothers me about pedophiles is that, when convicted, they get a life sentence by way of having to be a registered sex offender for the remainder of their lives. If it is an illness, it should be treated as such. If they are incurable, then we need to admit that as well.

  3. j

    I was still giggling and blushing at the word ‘hump’ at 12 (actually it still makes me giggle).

    I’ve never met a 12 year old that I would think was old enough to enter the world of sex.

    It’s a convenient law to help the saddo’s who want to be with kids.

  4. monicker

    As for drawing lines in the sand, everyone knows they’re blurred with regards to maturity, sex, etc. Although, for the vast majority kids who can’t possibly understand enough about sex to make their own decision in the matter, creating a firm boundary as regards the legal standpoint is absolutely necessary to protect them. Same goes for animals.

    Can I just say…ugh!

  5. johnnydee

    Speaking as someone who lost her virginity when she was twelve, it really fucks you up and most of the time you don’t even realise it.

    I’ve nursed serious problems with relating to people in a sexual relationship me entire life.

    That whole movement is completely fucked up. FUUUUUUCKED.

    (Sorry to rant but its a personal bugbear)

  6. Rob

    There’s nothing magical about the age of 18, of course. I’m sure there are teenagers who have the emotional and physical maturity to consent to sex before that age. (There are also many people well beyond that age who lack said maturity.) But as a legal matter, we have to draw the line somewhere, even if we could argue about exactly where. There are a lot of sickos out there who just want to get their jollies by preying on the most innocent and vulnerable people, and it’s absolutely the right thing to do to create laws to stop them. Personally, I support those Romeo and Juliet laws that set a sliding window for what’s legal and what constitutes statutory rape based on the ages of both parties. Those seem like a rare example of rationality intruding into the field of law.

  7. Hermdog

    We have a similar organization in the US, MAMBLA or something similar: Man Boy Love Association. They were in the news many moons ago trying to have the age of consent for sex lowered to 10 or 12 so that they could have sex with young boys.

    I agree with all the commenters above that while we each mature at a different rate, we need to protect children by drawing a line somewhere. Personally, I would have kicked the ass of any much older man having sex with my daughter at any age less than 18.

  8. RaeAn

    I agree that 18 is an arbitrary age, but in reality, it kind of makes sense: while you may not magically mature a whole bunch on youe 18th birthday, it does give a legal cutoff, which while not perfect, is necessary. And if you think about sex-offender laws, how many of them are actually enforced when both parties consent with full knowledge of what they’re getting into? Here in Georgia, it’s illegal for a 21-year-old to have sex with a 16-year old (statutory rape ends at 16, but between 16 and 18, anything larger than a 4-year difference is illegal); and while I knew very few 16-year-olds mature enough to have a fulfilling relationship with a 21-year-old, if someone is, then they’re not going to press charges. But that way, the laws are there in case some 30-year-old man seduces a 15-year-old girl against her long-term good… whereas an 18-year-old is much closer to the age where she could make a good decision on the matter, even if she can’t completely yet. So long story short, while not a magic number, 18 is a reasonable cutoff in most cases.

    I personally waited until I was 18 and in a committed relationship to start having sex. I’ve left that relationship and been more open since, but I think I did it the best way for me. While I am a huge proponent of cultural relativism (basically, morals can only be defined as relative to an individual culture), some things are necessary to restrict for psychological reasons even if not moreal reasons: children’s innocence must be maintained as long as possible without restricting them; who wouldn’t want to have plenty of “good ol’ days” memories later on? So while I’m all fine with a group wanting to do with their lives as they want, I’m not so fine with them doing it at the expense of others’. I would have no problem with pedophilia/bestiality if it didn’t ultimately have such a long-term negative effect on the younger/non-human party.

    I hope I’m making sense in my tired state. 🙂

    ~ RaeAn

  9. Katie

    I agree that there’s nothing “magical” about 18, I would, however, like to point out that in America it’s not statutory rape if you’re 17. It’s only rape when the elder person is in a position of trust (teacher, step parent, etcetera) in which case the younger has to be 18 for it to be legal.

    But twelve years old is way too young. In fact, for me, eighteen and nineteen were still too young. So thanks for the rant, Steff.

  10. scribe called steff

    Mhorts: So, they get a life sentence by way of being a registered sex offender? They know that’s the price they’ll pay if they’re caught. I don’t really have a problem with that. I feel bad for them having to continue paying that price, but y’know. I do have issues with the sex offender registry though, because even a simple flasher gets put on that list. I think there’s a world of difference between having sex with a 12-year-old and flashing an old lady in a park.


    I’m a fan of the Romeo-and-Juliet exemption. If kids underage are playing with each other, then so be it. I think it’s too young, but it’s not a crime. I think there should be a window of how much age difference is acceptable, and I don’t think there should be arbitrary convictions when an underage person is involved.

    I think these guys are a minority. I think the NAMBLA coalition for MAN-BOY LOVE is fucking ridiculous; it’s why I refuse to buy any writing by Allen Ginsberg, since I don’t want his estate having my money when I know he was a rabid supporter of NAMBLA.

    I think 18’s too old for the age of consent, that 16 makes more sense. We can’t ignore the body’s natural hormones, and they sure as fuck fire up before 18. I’d even support 14, but not for those who are over the age of 18 trying to fuck them. 17 and 14, sure.

    I think there is no magic number and everyone ages differently, but I believe there has to be a law, and setting it for the few who are more vulnerable is far more important than lowering the bar for those who are “advanced.” If this inconveniences some dirty old men or sinister Mrs. Robinson types, then too fucking bad, but it’s important that we preserve what little innocence we’re all entitled to enjoy for a time.

    I remember the feeling of losing my innocence, and it happened before I lost my virginity. I remember being sad and feeling like I would never be the same. It wasn’t even a sexual occurence, but at least I was cognizant of what in my life had changed — if only because I was old enough to understand the implications. Had I been younger, it would have just been a confusing day for me. What our bodies are capable of feeling, then, does not necessarily reflect our emotional maturity levels, and that’s what the law seeks to provide protection for.

    And Mhorts, this isn’t about stigmas and hang-ups. I’d argue that fucking at too young an age is what creates stigmas and hang-ups in your own mind. It’s fucking hard on some people. If society seeks to insulate us from that experience, then i don’t think it’s a bad thing. To believe someone’s fucked up for wanting to fuck 12 year olds when they’re 25, 35, or 45 or older, that’s not a fucking hang-up; that’s a pretty natural reaction, and I don’t feel the least bit bad about judging it.

    Wanting to have an incredibly adult and mature relationship with a child is borderline whacked in my world, and I don’t foresee myself “opening my mind” to that at any time EVER in the future. Period.

    (And to the commentor about NAMBLA: They don’t try to get people elected to office, so… They’re not really a political entity, they just provide a voice. A voice I wish would shut the fuck up.)

  11. Limey

    Contrary to my screen-name, I am Dutch.
    I figured it was just a matter of time before they’d fuck up big in Holland.
    I also figured the shooting of the bird that flew into the hall where they were setting up for Domino Day was it (I believe that made CNN)… Or the appointing of our current prime minister – a mannish person who’s biggest quality is looking like Harry Potter.

    Little did I know Holland would make worldwide news with this current piece of work.
    I think I may assume that I do not need to add how I feel about about pedophelia and so I’ll just skip on to saying that I, all of the Dutch I know, and probably even more that I don’t know do not back these numbnuts or their ideas.
    I don’t know how they are, rights-wise, but if they manage to form a party (after all, if extreme right gets to speak up, why not them), the sad thing is they’ll probably get one or two votes too.

    On a side note: As far as the age thing is concerned, the one biology class I did go to taught me that about every seven years your body goes through considerable changes and therefore we may assume that the age of 21 is the legal age.
    Ofcourse, I just saw a Tom Green movie and I’m pretty sure 21 means nothing to him – it’s all relative.

    So, closing of with once more my apologies for the idiotic behaviour of this hopefully select group of Dutch.

  12. scribe called steff

    Limey, I wouldn’t be so surprised it’s made the news. It doesn’t suggest it’s by any means a predominant view of the countryfolk there, though, so it’s not like I believe it’s a prevailing wind for all Dutchies.

    I just figured it was a good argument to raise, and I’m glad it provoked comments.

    And 21 is way too old. Ha! 🙂

    (Your PM really does look quite dorky. In fact, I’d say I’d rather NOT have a beer with him! But let’s leave poor Harry out of it.)

  13. RoyB

    I also think 18 is random, but a reasonable compromise. Most people are mature enough to make decisions concerning their future at 18. I’m with Hermdog on the ass-kicking thing where my son and daughter are concerned, tho. But if my kids hooked up with people close to their own age, I wouldn’t have much of a problem with it, but with much of an age difference, yes. I would have a MAJOR problem with it. Remembering my early relationship with my wife, we started dating when she was 15 and I was 16. We put off having sex for 6 months or so. We were ready by that time, and we’ve been together for 25 years, and I love her dearly. Yeah. I know, it is an exceptional case. But the point I’m making here is that we matured sexually together. (And still continue to in our 40s. lol. 🙂 We were both completely inexperienced kids.

    Also: Last year, I was a jurist in a trial for a serial rapist. I listened to about 4 weeks of testimony by 5 psychological experts (2 for defense and 3 for prosecution) about rape and child molest. I learned a lot of things that have made me pretty uneasy. The worst of which is: Child molesters, according to the statistical data collected over the last 50 years, don’t get “better” with age. They continue to be pedophiles until they die. There is no treatment that works for these types. All 5 agreed on this point.

    Apparently, according to these experts, the “garden variety” rapist does get better with age. This was the crux of their argument. “But he’s not a pedophile.” It didn’t fly with us, and we threw his ass back in jail. He was still a major lying asshole with no regard for the women’s lives he had destroyed.

    Your stuff is always thought-provoking, Steff. I wish I could keep up and comment more often.

  14. A Scribe Called Steff

    1. Anonymous
    Posted April 17, 2007 at 8:27 pm | Permalink | Edit
    I understand where you are coming from Steff but I read a book called “Going all the Way” and “Harmful to Minors” both had chapters that dealt with young girls having relationships with adult men. Overall the girls said that those relationships helped them or maybe forced them to grow up but they didn’t regret the experience. I am not saying we should let pedophiles run free but unfortunately I am terribly open minded and think we should try and understand where they are coming from, not necessarily tolerate but understand.
    2. Scribe Called Steff
    Posted May 11, 2008 at 4:50 pm | Permalink | Edit
    Mm, no, I don’t think I really need to understand these guys. I’ve tried, I’ve given up.
    But I know where you’re coming from. 🙂


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